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I still crave gift economies. I don't understand leftists creating new money systems claiming they will be fix capitalism.

Trade based on social relations, collective desires, solidarity, and love.

I heard the Youtube leftist Non-Compete talking about how something like Uber would exist in a communist utopia where there would be some sort of way to track usage and compensate drivers, and ... no.

There already exists a gift economy where we gift people rides. I'm sure there would be people who want to do this as their main contribution to the community. They are important. The community takes care of them in turn.

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could you imagine having a potluck and then keeping a ledger about who provided what food and how much everyone ate?

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@showerpickles there won't even be any cars when we have achieved socialism. Everything will be handled by rail and bus

@schratze I don't really believe in "achieving socialism" as a possible end outcome. Hierarchies will always be reformed, but we can continue to subvert them. We can build gift economies and liberated spaces in our own lives today. It's the revolution of everyday life. I do hope we can achieve a life where the liberated spaces make up most of our existence.

@showerpickles Hmm yeah I agree with you here. The development will probably be gradual rather than sudden and a lot can be achieved through "counter-economics" and free organizations. But I'm convinced that we will see a shift away from the car as we know it either way. We won't be able to halt climate change and take back our living spaces in the city otherwise.

@schratze @showerpickles I am sure disabled people who cannot access bus and trains and require door to door transport to be able to go anywhere will be thrilled to hear this. /s

oh wait actually we are actually not thrilled to hear utopia is still inaccessible.

bound collective

@showerpickles so i agree with the sentiment you express here, but also lol im pretty sure there are common types of social circles in which people do this, just, the ledger stays in their head
@showerpickles i do agree though that... i dont understand why people would do that

@cascode :blobcatsadlife:

I mean, I mentally keep track of when others take advantage and mistreat others. I try to address that through social relations (like talking to them about it), but also the intent of the system is just to provide food to people.

@showerpickles yeah, for sure. sorry for being negative on that one

@showerpickles i've seen "community meals" get halfway to that, and wow was it a depressing pile of scenester meh. i stopped going

@showerpickles like they missed the whole "unless you're really causing problems (and even then, that's situational, and shouldn't be a regular occurrence), all are welcome" aspect of things, as well as there being one rule for feeding folks:

1) you feed folks, then clean up

@showerpickles someone getting 86ed should be a last resort, and not like "well, they don't fit with our vibe" or whatever

@showerpickles it almost was like going to a restaurant. wrong, wrong, wrong lol

@poiseunderchaos like we set up boundaries, y'know. If you have a potluck there is an implied boundary that one person won't just come in and take all the food home to stock their fridge. IDK, it seems like there is a pretty clear line between that and policing others receiving of gifts.

it's like christmas morning and you hand someone a gift. There is an implied boundary that they won't just say thanks and take your purse as an added bonus. It's not part of the gift. But "they accepted too many of my gifts" is just ... wtf?

@showerpickles right, right. this was more like "you don't know our hidden rules which may or may not be part of our clique". that plus a lot of possibly questionable whining was like "given that i don't know y'all or the person involved, and given that i know a lot of scenes are exclusionary anyway...i'm out". classist? hipster things? who knows.

@showerpickles but to what you're saying: to be sure. there's a line, like you said, but replicating "this is working too well, can't have that" as well as wage labor...i mean, is that the world we're trying to build here? "better cages?" nah.

especially if it smells like the same old shit all over again, which this does

@showerpickles The sad thing is, I'm pretty sure there are actually people who'd do this

@showerpickles new money systems is a really old distraction from actual mutual aid systems!

it's sort of sad that people still fall for that, even though every time it gets tried, it just replicates money systems and the social hierarchies therein all over again

@showerpickles thank you.
everyone's all excited about UBI but im like...just make housing and food and clothing free and the rest will follow ugh

@showerpickles instead of or after Christmas celebrations, we should do a massive pot luck type thing where everyone shares food and trades any small gifts so that the slate can be whipped clean and all but the largest social debts don't follow into the new year. Good community building and a way to ease the tension.

I'd say things like house building or renovations would be the main thing in the large debt category but those are easily relayed with everyone know who was involved so you can ask for similar help later.

@showerpickles nothing says tearing down the system like using its framework to imagine a new system that recreates the old one’s problems

@showerpickles everytime I see people on here talking about the gift economies they already take part in it gives me so much hope

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Rage.love

Generalist Hometown instance with a strong focus on community standards. No TERF, no SWERF, no Nazi, no Centrist.