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hey WHITE PEOPLE y'all's Uber is here. time to GO 👏 HOME 👏

do you ever just ... sit.. and wonder if white people understand they are also a victim of white supremacy? so many white americans have no pride in the culture of their ancestors, if they even know where they come from at all and unless it was one of the major colonizing countries, chances are their homeland has also been smeared and vilified or broken down by richer power complexes so they won't want to find the beauty in their history.

like. how do you make a bigot? you put fear into them. you take away their stability. you spin them in circles and throw them into a strange place to find their own way and then while they're still reeling, you point out the communities making it work and tell them, "They could help you, but they won't." or maybe its "They did this to you" or "Those people are dangerous, save yourself!"

white people were some of the first victims of whiteness and i need you white folk to understand this quicker, realize you are defending your abusers, then put in the work to unfuck yourself and put your bodies and wallet on the line to defend the peoples you have been taught must be eradicated by the people that took your pride from you. it wasn't Black or Indigenous people, quema?

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I like the conversations happening in this thread but it's taking over my notifs so into the mute pile it goes lol

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@popstar hahaahjsjssnjsbd FUCK I'm in too much dang pain to be laughing this hard 😂

@popstar don't you think bigotry goes way deeper, that's it's a primitive fear and it takes over unless taken control of?

@charlag Discrimination, yes. Bigotry that transcends social limitations and becomes systemic and persistent, so deeply woven into society that we need to demolish great portions of it to remove the rot? no, not so much.

@popstar thanks for giving me this perspective. It's really a complex thing.

@charlag @popstar No. Bigotry is an asshole move of assholes.
Granted, some circumstances make it likelier that it develops, but only some people willingly develop to bigots under them.

@popstar really well put. thanks. i think about this a lot and it fucks me up.

@popstar so many people forget that Italian Americans were discriminated against and even lynched until they were considered white due to forced assimilation and were reduced to largely to cultural stereotypes. That's why people of Italian decent should be supportive of social justice and pro immigration, but they don't because they're "white" now.

@paperfixie @popstar

it's not just a US thing, in france Portuguese and Spanish 1950s/60s migrants received the same sort of abuse and discrimination Algerian or Moroccan folks who arrived at the same time did

fear of "Polish plumbers" was a big driver for the brexit vote

(you could probably also mention 19th century's internal colonialism and it's violent erasure of local cultures and languages in favour of an "homogenous" nation state during the industrial revolution)

as I understand it you're only considered white once you assimilate and become an enforcer of white supremacy yourself, and that whiteness can be stripped away at any moment (there's that fear aspect again)

@popstar I guess a way to do this is to study the way on which most European peoples were colonised and ripped off of their cultures, forced to conform to an imperial identity and then used as fodder for further expansion. The experience of the occitan "vergonha" is a clear example

@popstar I have nothing but contempt and rage for my ancestors for the simple fact that they left me nothing to feel pride in, no culture to look back on with even a measure of appreciation or respect. I HAVE no culture, at least not one rooted in the past, all I have is a lineage of gobbling up others. You have to go back several generations before you get even an approximation of an actual history and culture in my family line, and it's Spain, one of the BIG colonial super-monsters.

If I can stick a giant middle finger at my ancestry and throw myself in support of everything they sought to destroy or consume, all the goddamn better. They don't deserve my pride.

@Swiff This is something else I have been mulling over all night. Where does that leave people, really? If they can't find pride in the culture or like you said, your ancestors don't deserve it. It seems to me, there's something very powerful about creating your own culture that actively resists the pasts' crimes while not covering it and striving to be more.

Like after all, my culture has done it, and created something new from the devastation and reinventing ourselves. White people could possibly do the same thing, but it requires a lot of unlearning..

@popstar Very few people, ESPECIALLY white people, are equipped to deal with shame productively. We either get angry about being made to feel ashamed, deny it, or wallow in our guilt until we tire ourselves out and feel better (if folks are lucky. More likely we'll find someone even marginally less socially advantaged than us to comfort us and tell us we're 'one of the good ones'), or some combination thereof.

Arguably, that IS modern White culture, at least in my experience in my own country: Ignorant ease. Don't worry about race, about culture, because you are the Default.

I wanna believe in that goal, of reinvention, I wanna believe we could do something similar, but the closest thing we have to a cultural mandate is preservation of the status quo: not because it is ideal, even for us, but because it doesn't SCARE us. Victims of white supremacy or not, it doesn't FRIGHTEN us. And that's all a lot of people will ever care about. Not being afraid for any longer than strictly necessary.

@Swiff @popstar But then again, you yourself _create_ culture. Every human being is capable of _creating_ culture. You are.

@popstar my dad was abandoned by his birth mother because he wasn't "Aryan enough." My mother's family was German and Welsh. The Romans spent hundreds of years trying to assimilate the Barbarians of the place they called "Germania."

One of their favorite strategies was kidnapping children from the tribes and raising them as Romans to "civilize them," with the idea that they would return to their tribes and "civilize" their people. (Familiar, eh?) This ultimately failed, but Christianity began to creep in and did what the Romans couldn't. From Charlemagne's forced conversation, beheading thousands of heathens, to the northern crusades, the ancient languages and beliefs were mostly wiped out.

A generation after that part of my family reached Ellis Island, the only thing left was a name. I know nothing about my Welsh ancestors.

Then I'm taught the history of the Christians and Romans as my own. Yeah... Burn this shit to the fucking ground.

culture & whiteness 1/2 

@popstar
We've been thinking abt this on and off for a while. Maybe not as "first victims" but like, our Swiss parents emigrated to NZ, and we got /zero/ connection with our culture except for a couple meals. Kid me refused to learn Swiss-german, and while we did used to open presents on xmas eve, I'm honestly very disinterested in christmas now.

culture & whiteness 2/2 

@popstar
So like.... we got no connection to anything. It sucks, and honestly i can see why white ppl constantly steal shit from other cultures who do have more connection & tradition, 'cause we think it'll help us feel tethered or connected to something, it'll help us find our place in the world.

Obviously that's not the way to do it.

@popstar I would argue the pride is part of the blinding effect. White people are made so proud of phantasms that they literally cosplay as them, so that they might be in the role of persecutor for once in their lives.

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Rage.love

Generalist Hometown instance with a strong focus on community standards. No TERF, no SWERF, no Nazi, no Centrist.