monads-adjacent 

So yes. If we listen to others who get abused, and do something about that, those abusers won't be around to abuse us.
If we don't, those abusers will sooner or later get around to abuse us.
Listen to, and trust, those who get more hate directed towards them. If you want to do it for egoistic reasons, use the one I listed above. If it works, it works.

Follow

monads-adjacent 

One of my mother-in-laws asked me why I care so damn much about every little minority.
I tried to come up with a phrasing that would get across to her.

Every minority has the same enemies. In the end, it's always the same small group of old white men who benefit. If we co-operate, we win. If we don't, they win.

monads-adjacent 

Personally, I just told myself at a young age to not do evil shit.
But that doesn't seem to work as a motivation for most people. So I've learned to come up with reasons.

monads-adjacent, violent threat 

"Reasons to not be evil" services are available workdays between 9 am and 3:30 pm CEST, and at all hours for urgent cases (urgent case reasons will be restricted to "or I'll fracking shiv ya", and are geographically restricted)

monads-adjacent, Nazis implied 

@panina I believe this was the rhetorical tactic Martin Niemöller was trying with the famous "First they came for" poem. Like, if nothing else speak out in your own self-interest, you fucks.

monads-adjacent, Nazis implied 

@ljwrites yeah, and that poem worked, for me. I came across it in my teens, and went like "damn, let's not be evil, it seems to be a horrible survival tactic".
That poem has always been extremely important to me, and was probably being played in the background of my mind when I was thinking about this...

monads-adjacent, Nazis & antisemitism 

@panina I guess there are people who take the opposite tactic of deciding to be THE MOST evil so they'll be the ones doing the taking away, not the ones being taken--heck, Niemöller himself was an early supporter of Hitler and an open anti-semite. But the ones who are not willing to go the limits of oppression and apathy, who have the barest limits, yeah, solidarity is their best bet.

monads-adjacent, Nazis & antisemitism 

@ljwrites I actually think that most of the evil shits do get taken down by other evil shits - not sure it's possible to stay the most evil & powerful for ever. If someone does that, they probably don't have a great quality of life anyway...
But I don't think they're doing it for the logic of it anyway....

monads-adjacent, Nazis & antisemitism 

@panina Yeah it's certainly not the kind of life I'd like to live 😬

monads-adjacent, 

@ljwrites "oh no, they neighbour is starting to look almost as evil as me, they might try to take over!
Quick, what's the most heinous act you can think of? Let's do that!"

monads-adjacent 

@ljwrites ... wait, am I quoting the godfather movies?

monads-adjacent 

@panina pretty much the history of human domination tbh

monads-adjacent 

@ljwrites yeah, and a story that is extremely popular in the capitalist, white supremacist, patriarchal west.

I read a book by this amazing swedish writer called Johannes Anyuru, where he suggests that maybe we should focus more on stories of what happens to people who act like this.
It's a suggestion that's brewing in the back of my head. What happens to the soul of someone who acts like this? How do they feel?
Let's see if we can get people to listen to that, instead...

genocide & mental health 

(Additional CW: Nazis, SS, Holocaust, alc, addiction, suicide)

@panina There's a form of trauma aptly abbreviated as PITS, perpetration-induced traumatic stress, that shows the mental health toll of committing such cruelties. The Nazis' killing squads, the Einsatzgruppen that went around exterminating entire villages of Jewish people, were particularly prone to alcoholism and suicide. This has been well-attested in all kinds of other atrocities, too.

genocide & mental health 

@ljwrites I should look into that. Thanks for telling me about it.

genocide & mental health, additional cop stuff 

@ljwrites @panina I've read similar evidence in a book nobody should buy because the author is a garbage person who somehow missed his own thesis

On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society by Dave Grossman talks about moral injury as being one of the biggest indicators that humans are poorly evolved to commit violence against each other directly and that's why it takes so much reconditioning to get soldiers (and cops) to behave as violently as they're ordered to.

At least, to get them to do it directly in person.

(Somehow he came away from his research about how constitutionally unsuited humans are for killing and how a lot of cop/soldier trauma is moral injury to argue in favor of working harder to make our official violence dealers more violent. He uses this information to train cops to be more readily murderous. So no money for this dirtbag ever.)

great book to steal

racism, family conflict 

@cobalt @ljwrites this sounds really interesting as well.

But I'm also thinking about a more low-key, large-scale thing.

Like, I had very little contact with my grandparents, because they were racist. My children has little contact with my parents, because my parents are a bit racist, and quite sexist.

Racism and sexism is very present in white, western culture. One effect of that is that we don't have good family ties over generations, because different parts of this is present in different generations.

racism, family conflict 

@panina @cobalt yeah I can barely talk to my dad anymore because he's so racist and sexist, among other things. Sadly some of my same-age former friends are like that, too.

indoctriation of children, genocide & mental health, additional cop stuff 

@cobalt @ljwrites actually, when I think about it some more this book does sound like something I want to read.

I've got kids that the norm sees as boys, and I know that society is going to try to make soldiers and cops of them.

And I want to counteract that. So more information about what they're trying to do is probably good.

indoctriation of children, genocide & mental health, additional cop stuff 

@panina @cobalt Yeah as long as they keep a critical reading stance and recognize the author as the shitty sellout he is, it's good for them to learn that violence is by no means their "nature" but rather something they have to be manipulated and brainwashed into.

indoctriation of children, genocide & mental health, additional cop stuff 

@panina @ljwrites It's super good

you get little peeks of him being a disappointingly racist jackass in the book but nothing that would indicate he went on to assure cops in his trainings that after they kill someone they'll go home and have the best sex of their lives

the dude is a legit nightmare

indoctriation of children, genocide & mental health, additional cop stuff 

@cobalt @panina omfg yeah definitely pirate the book, don't give that shitass a cent

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Rage.love

Generalist Hometown instance with a strong focus on community standards. No TERF, no SWERF, no Nazi, no Centrist.